Episode 42: Healing Through Grief: A Compassionate Guide| Leda Mitrofanis

Join Jay DePaolo and returning guest, Leda Mitrofanis of Simply Ledaon on the Choices Podcast as they delve into the emotional journey of grief. Learn why grief isn’t linear, how to hold space for pain, and practical tools like breathwork and grounding. Discover how love and acceptance can transform loss into lasting connection. A must-watch for anyone healing or supporting others.

Her website: www.simplyleda.com

Listen to the Audio Podcast:

 

OR Listen on Your Favorite Platform

Podcast Transcript:

Hello, world, and welcome to Choices Podcast. My name is Jay DePaolo , the owner of Choices Books and Gifts in New York City, a store dedicated to health, wellness and the recovery community for over 30 years. I am the host of our podcast. You always have choices when we dive deep into stories of transformation, healing, and personal growth. And today I have, a woman who has joined us on a few other occasions. I think this is her fifth showing. We love her dearly. I love you too. She's fantastic. And, Question one when someone is hit with grief unexpectedly, what's the very first thing you recommend they do even before they understand What they're feeling.

So first, it's important to understand that grief is not limited to the loss of a loved one only right. And we've talked about this before. You and I, we experience grief in life moments when we feel a loss or even lost, such as divorce, moving locales, career or financial change or loss, loss of friendship, loss of the pet, which you know well. And that being said, and if we're speaking about the loss of a loved one or a pet, that passing, when that passing happens unexpectedly, the first emotion that we have is shock and disbelief, which is also considered the first stage of grief. And in this emotion, there is nothing to actually do per se. You are in a state of being, and when we go into shock, we have trouble believing that the loss actually happened. And sometimes we even deny the truth of it. And in this state we go into a numbness, right? And our body has already kicked in because it's our body that acts.

By taking us into that stage of numbers is a form of protection from the event and loss that we're trying to grapple with, right? So what we need to do in this instance is to allow ourselves a space so that we can come to terms with the loss incrementally, so we don't actually do anything per se, but we're actually just allowing ourselves the grace to be. Because we can't do anything when we're in that state of shock. It's impossible for the mind to grapple and make sense and then actually make a decision about what to do next.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, Is that makes sense? it does. And as you know, like Lisa and I's case, when we lost our little I call my daughter my little Jilly Bean puppy. You know, we were so filled with grief that that's the only thing we felt. There was nothing else but this pain and, you know, guilt. Could we have done something different? Should have we done something different? That type of thing?

o yes, that makes a lot of sense to me. Number two, what is one thing you wish everyone understood about grief before they experienced it themselves?

So grief is a process that moves in this particular motion. It’s not linear. Most people think it's linear. You go from stage one, two, three, four, five and then you're done. And it doesn't work that way because everyone moves through the various stages of grief in their own time and manner. And there's no right or wrong. You, you know, one minute we could feel sadness and anger, and the next minute we could feel fear and guilt, and then the next week we could feel acceptance. And then before the day is over, we could feel that sadness again. It's a ping pong  and it just keeps circling and circling and we never actually get over it. People say that a lot. Just get over it or they think they need to get over it. But this isn't possible when you lose someone who's near and dear. It's just not. And the loss is always with us. But what we do is we learn to move forward with the acceptance of the loss. So it's very important to give ourselves and others grace when they grieve, because it's not something that we can understand if we're standing from the outside looking in.

Yes. I once again. you know I go back to myself how you know my pain comes back but it's less frequently than Lisa's where her pain is still very alive, you know. And sometimes I wonder if she should be feeling better by now, you know. And that's just not the case. I know, I know, Number three. How do we hold space for grief without trying to fix it?when in our selves or in others?

Well, first, it's important that we know that grief cannot be fixed, right? We are a society of fixing and problem solving, but you cannot fix it. And I think in what people, in essence, are trying to say when they have this concept of fixing it, is that they want us or themselves to move on from Google. That's what that translates to, right? And they do this because they feel uncomfortable with all that pain and all the emotions that come up, because we're not taught. To sit with grief. We're not taught that. It's a natural and essential process that has to be traversed and has to be self. So when we sit with grief over and over, that's how we feel, okay, right. And we can hold space for others just by being present without speaking.

And also when we sit with ourselves, we do so without any harsh judgments about what we should be doing or what stage we should be at. At this point, right? We're always judging ourselves for not being where we think we should be.

Right now.  Absolutely, yep. Number four people say grief is not a problem to solve. So how should we relate to it instead? Yeah. So going back to what we just said right. It ties into that. And this is very true because the intellect cannot solve an emotional process. It’s not designed to. So when I say the intellect I mean the mind.

And when I say emotional process, I mean our hearts. Yeah, yeah. So our mind cannot solve the emotion of the heart. It's not meant to because there are two different things, right? The emotions of grief must be allowed, right? We have to, by moving through them, is what I want to say and not feel and feeling all of it. That's how we incrementally peel back, layer by layer, until we come back into a sense of ourselves.

So essentially, and I don't know, I know you don't completely heal, but you heal by feeling the emotions and going through them. Am I correct? Yes. It's just not the place where most people want to be, right? Right now it's hard.

Yeah, I know it's hard. What is the difference between grief and suffering? And can grief exist without suffering? This is a good question, because suffering has been something that, you know, historically, humanity's been talking about for eons. So if we defined grief, grief is the sum total of all the emotions of pain that we feel when we experience loss.

Right? Suffering is the thought that we're having about what our grief should look like or feel like. So the best way to explain this is depending on what you were taught or witnessed in your family or culture about experiencing grief, that leaves an imprint for what we believe we should be feeling and expressing, right? So that kind of bleeds into our subconscious.

And for some that could mean you were black for a year. For others, it could mean you refrain from social activities. For other people, mourning is, defined as a state of isolation, right? Right, right. You know, other people just have, move along, life goes on mentality. Other people are stoic. It kind of depends on what you've learned and what you've picked up.

And but when we move beyond all of this conditioning, because that's human conditioning, we see. And this will go back to what you said about Lisa. We see that the intensity of our grief and suffering is directly correlated to the intensity of the love that we had for what or whom we lost.

Yeah. Does that make sense?

It does. It does. Because, I mean, even in my own life, I've seen a lot of, you know, through the years, death and all that. And I know this. I've seen it a few times in families with somebody young who should, who died before their time, really. And the grief is just magnificently more than it would be with someone who's a little older.

Right. It's also the intensity of the connection you have with the person that you lost. And I do want to say one thing about suffering here. So there is grief that's associated with trauma, and that's called traumatic grief. And that occurs when we experience a sudden or unpredictable, distressing event that causes a loss, like a natural disaster, sexual assault, a tragic death like suicide or some kind of physical altercation, you know, that kind of thing.

And those have a very unique set of circumstances because they're tied into PTSD, right? And suffering. And so people who are suffering from a traumatic grief really need to get counseling, professional counseling others to help them move it, because in addition to the actual normal mourning that people have the grieving process, they also have the trauma. So and that needs to be treated a little differently.

I definitely understand that and have seen that as I said in my own life, the difference in the trauma and PSD and all of those things. Well I think a good example of that is, you know, what happened on 9-11?

Oh yeah, I remember I was working for a company and I went down there because I, we had supplies where it went through the air and off the ground because they lost all communications.

And there's in most of the office, I saw grief therapists with groups of people, you know, helping them to get through that. So I'm glad that they gave that to them. And I'm talking about, you know, shortly after 9- 11 happened. Yeah.

So yeah, yeah. How can someone find meaning or purpose again when life feels completely hollow after a loss?

So that feeling of hollowness, that's a very natural response and feeling to have, especially initially after the loss and in due time with acceptance. And again, this depends on the of the individual and the loss. Right. We say it's different for everyone. Grief can be turned into social advocacy or a healthier way of living or a living legacy. Right? I've seen changes instilled in those that are left behind that were inadvertently spurred on by the loss of their loved one. So like, it's, you know, it's sort of like a switch was turned on. And acceptance is the key here because in acceptance, we fully acknowledge the facts of the situation, and we're not fixated on how it shouldn't be this way. Right. Because in the beginning we're like, this is wrong. Why did they pass? Why this? Why that? Why the other thing? Right? We go through the why questions. But when we're not fixated on that, it allows us to break free from thoughts of guilt. Yeah. Especially people who are experiencing survivor's guilt because that catches us in a loop, and it actually allows us to suspend any kind of harsh judgment that we have towards ourselves. And it allows us, acceptance allows us to embrace the possibility of a different light.

So just to be clear with acceptance, like I need to accept that I lost this person and I'm feeling this way or what that  acceptance ? So acceptance is that that you understand and accept that while the loss is still painful and it's with you, you know that life will still move on.

Okay. So we take the loss forward with us. We don't shut the door on it. We allow it to breathe in us. And as we move forward, it will breathe less and less. Yeah, but it's always with us. It's a part of who we are now. But we accept that it's painful. It's going to have it's process and that in due time, whatever that is for each person, we're going to move on.

Yeah, yeah. Got it. Life moves on. Yes. You know and the decision becomes are we part of it or not. You know and we decide what role we want to play as we move forward Okay. Great great great. How do you respond to someone who says I should be over this by now.I should be over this by now?

You know, I love this question. Mind your business.

I'm just kidding. But you know I, I've had some of my clients say that, you know, they are very forthright, but and I actually applaud that because I hear this all the time. This is very, very common in grief counseling, especially in groups, because people will come and say that to you. But it's important to understand why they say it.

Right. So when someone says that to you, it's because what in essence they're saying is that I need you to go back to being who you were before the loss, so that I can continue being who I am in relation to you, because I don't know what to do with this different version of you, this grieving version of you.

Right? Yeah. Most of us are not, especially in Western culture. We are not taught how to be around a grieving individual. We're not taught how to behave. We're not taught what to say. And I teach my clients that when someone says that kind of a comment to you, you are not required to respond, especially if the comment is offensive or disrespectful.

Right. So when we don't respond and we just take a pause, there is a silence or a gap in the conversation, right? And that other person will step up to fill that momentary void.

But in that momentary pause, it gives them a second to reflect subconsciously on what they just said. And that usually reroutes them, because in that moment you're saying, oh, should I have said that?

They didn't say anything? Shouldn't I have said that? Was that the wrong thing to say? So they'll either backtrack, maybe an apologize, or they might not say anything at all.

I also tell them that alternatively. Alternatively, you can simply say something like I will not be responding to that. And what? And you either disengage if you're really uncomfortable, or you can just change the subject to something else.

 

Do you think a lot of people, when they say that that statement, you know, you should be over this? It's because of the way my grief is making you feel? Yeah.  Right. I don't know how to respond to it. Right. And they can't be who they were around you. Yes. Yeah. Now that you're in this grieving process, you know, they have to shift and they don't know how to do that.

In a way it becomes when they say you should move on now it's about them, Right. Not about you. Yeah. It's not about you and what you're doing by responding in this way is you're setting the boundary and you're teaching them how to speak to you. Gotcha, gotcha. Right. And you don't have to do it. And I tell my clients all the time, and in the groups we talk about this, you don't have to do it in a nasty, offended, bitter way.

You can just say, you know what? I'm not responding to that. Yeah, the other person will pick it up. They know. Yeah, yeah. You know, and sometimes people need instructions from the grieving person, you know. And I always tell my group members, tell people what you need. Don't expect them to read your mind and know I like that. And they would appreciate that.

Especially sometimes I think, as you mentioned earlier, they're you don't recognize they're feeling off because of your grief. Right. So sometimes you can, you know, by not being nasty, you can explain, listen, you feel that, you know, you just express it by however you feel so and explain it. You could say anything. You can even say things like, I just need you to sit with me and not speak.

Right. I just, you know, I just, I just want to go out for dinner, and I don't want to talk about my loss. Yep, yep. Whatever it is that you need in the moment, the more you communicated honestly and in a state of neutrality, you will see that people will be very happy to step up and accommodate to what your needs are.

Yes, I think so. And that's been my experience on both ends of it, on both ends. What role does the body play in grief, and how can physical practices like breathwork, movement or grounding help us heal?

So we know that grief causes physical symptoms. So it's the emotions that are brought on by the grief that are causing the physical symptoms. And depending on the intensity of the grief, the physical symptoms will vary. They can be fatigue, weight loss, weight gain, insomnia, cognitive difficulties, heart functioning, you know, palpitations, anxiety, things like that. Aches and pains that have no explanation. Lowered immunity is a big one, actually. You know that state of depression if someone falls into a depression, that kind of really brings that down a little bit.

Engaging in physical activity during the grieving process is really essential to the counteracting. Yeah, yeah. Because what we're doing is we're moving stuck emotions and allowing them to release, because we already know that when emotions leave trapped in the body, they manifest into illness, into greater influence. So it's important that they get processed. And I always tell because people who are grieving, not everybody wants to run and go to the gym and do a workout.

Okay, you can just take a walk. Yeah, preferably in nature. Right? Because when you take the walk, the body is moving, the circulatory system is activated, your lymphatic system is activated. This is not about burning calories. This is a mental walk. Yes. Yeah. Right. And it's just allowing you to take yourself out of that space of grieving. You're looking around and nature has a very unique way of grounding us and connecting us to our innermost self.

And that's very, very soothing. Yes. Right. And that's why it's very, very healing. The breathwork that you were talking about in the grounding, those go hand in hand, actually, again, breathwork helps us to regulate our nervous system. Is that more meditation or just focusing on your breath? Breathwork is just focusing on your breath. And there are different types of breathwork.

So you could do the five, which is you breathe in for five, hold for five, release for five. You can it's breath work. Also, breathing through the diaphragm into your mouth and nose out through your mouth very, very slowly. So you're releasing on account of 8 to 10, depending on your ability. And this allows the system to slow down.So it really brings the nervous system down. Right. So and grounding also is, when we do breathwork, we're grounding ourselves. Right. So if you're home and if you have a quiet spot, you can sit and sit on the floor, you know, if you have a little yard, go and sit on your grass, right? Because you're grounding and your breath, I say the same time, okay.

Consciously breathing. I mean, obviously we're breathing all the time. People ask me that they should, but I breathe all the time. I'm like, yes, but this is conscious breathing technique. They're techniques where you can breathe in alternate nostrils, which also has certain effects. So where you would hold one you mean? yeah  . So it's about finding whatever works for you. Okay. And, you know, making it yours. Very cool. Very cool stuff.

What are the most accessible tools, things anyone can do at home to process grief in a healthy way?

So because most people are usually home in the initial stages of grief because they don't feel like going out and socializing, right, they're doing something solo. Journaling your thoughts and feelings is a great way to start to release and put out into the physical and let to get out of your head and out into the physical space of putting your thoughts on paper. Right. Anything creative like making art, music, dance, crafting? Because when we do any of those things, we are activating our inspiration, so to speak. And inspiration means in spirit. So we're connecting with our spiritual essence and we zone out. It gives the mind a time to take a break. So we're not thinking xyzzy about the situation right.

You know a flat spinning in any way. Any kind of slow moving exercises like yoga, tai chi again walking in nature, you know, which is another thing. Eat well, maintain a good diet, sleep when you need to sleep. A lot of people sleep initially in the first stages of grief especially. I see that a lot with couples, especially young couples, where one of the spouses unexpectedly passes and they disengage and they just want to be alone, and they can't even think, so they just initially sleep a lot, and that's depression.

Maybe some depression. That’s Okay. Because that's the body's shutting your system down and protecting you until you are ready to start facing what happened. Okay. So it's okay. I also, any time like we said, prayer and meditation that you said before. So any spiritual or religious practice someone has, is also something you can do at home. I do want to say something about anger, though.

So people who are angry because anger is a very big part of the grieving process, especially when you see parents losing a child. Or, you know, I or you know, someone who's taken too soon, let's put it that way. And, you know, could be a friend, you know, a party in a different family member, not necessarily only parent child.

That anger needs to be released appropriately. How do you do that? Take it out, on someone else so that you could punch a pillow That’s when you can do any kind of okay, home gym workout, even if it's with your body weight, dancing like vigorous dancing. Put on music and just go to town. You know, there are ways to process that so that you can really release that quickly and allow your nervous system to just. No punching out your neighbor, though, right?

No. Listen, you know, what happened is when where where's when there's a family that's grieving and they're all under one roof. Yeah, they tend to start arguing with each other. Start, you know, they'll start fighting and saying things. And it's not intentional. It's just that each person is dealing with their pain in their own way. And we have an expectation that the other person should grieve a certain way. It's just a natural, ingrained thing that we have is human. But this is about accepting that everyone needs to do it their own way.

I think that's so important what you said about accepting, because I do, I, I can see so many people having grieving their way. And it must like you mentioned, that perfect example of a family where 1st May shut down, 1st May get aggressive, 1st May, you know, act out in a in other ways. So it reminds me a lot of what you're saying is an old thing is a move, a muscle change, a thought, things of that nature. Right. You know, right. When you do stuff like that, it helps. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. What small daily practices have you seen help people stay grounded in the middle of deep emotional pain?

Yeah. So this again, we'll go back to our regulating our nervous system. So when someone is in deep emotional pain, they're overwhelmed in that moment. Right. And they can't recalibrate themselves. The breathwork helps. Followed by a ten minute meditation. Sometimes that's not always possible.

 

So, tapping is great to do. Cognitively what is tapping like something like this. Yes. So a TFT tapping where your you have meridians in the body and you're tapping in certain areas. So here on your head here. Okay. Collarbone. How long do you do it. For how long or as long as you want. And while you're tapping, you can, you know, say things like, I know it's hard.

I'm going to, but I can move past this, you know, things that just help you to you have to see something that you can believe, right? Healthy affirmations. Yes. But the affirmation has to be something that you can embrace and believe. Okay, I'm just like, I'm really I know I'm feeling really crappy right now, but there is a way out, okay, there's a way out because that helps bring down and regulate that nervous system and takes you off of that emotional ledge.

Okay. Right. So there's cognitive diffusion. So that is when you, you know, start to look around your environment and you distract yourself with something else, you know, in other words, maybe you get up and go to the kitchen and make yourself a smoothie, for example, or you, distract yourself by putting on some music or whatever.

You know, it's about diffusing in the moment that singular focus that you have on the grieving, that in that moment is overwhelming you? I think it's the simplest way for me to describe it. You described it wonderful  more layman's terms, right? Yeah. And then grounding. Grounding is great. And what I like the most, because usually when we have that overwhelming sense of pain, we're usually somewhere alone, home, or we could be in our car.

A lot of times people will pull over from driving because the grief it just hits when it hits right. So you plant your feet flat on the floor and you imagine that there are roots, much like the tree root that is coming out of the bottom, out of the soles of your feet. And these roots are moving into the earth.

So imagine the roots going through the various levels of the crest of the earth, until they go all the way down into the center of the earth, and then imagine that they are wrapping themselves around the poor, the crystalline core of the earth. And when your roots are wrapped around the core, you have this sense of feeling tethered and safe and secure.

So I can understand that. Yes, because when we're overwhelmed, we kind of feel like the ground is not steady. We feel it stay, the ground is not steady under our feet. So that kind of a grounding exercise allows us to say that we're grounded. We're being held right, right. We're safe. Okay. Yeah. We're safe. Excellent.

So you've worked with people at all stages of loss, from fresh heartbreak to long standing sorrow.

What are some of the most common misunderstandings you hear when people first walk through your door?

Yeah, I think here I would have to say that, they feel that they're never going to be able to put the pieces of their life back together and that their life is somehow over. But we know that this is not true. But in that moment it is. It's so true. In that moment. Yeah. Sorry. So I think those are the two greatest misunderstandings. And your life does change, but it's not over. And you're not fragmented into a million pieces that cannot be made to feel whole again.

I think having that belief must be the hard thing to do, to hold on. Because I know. Because grief is, you know, hit me just recently. Those first couple weeks were like, Will I ever feel differently again? It was so difficult.

Yeah. And what happens is that eventually the love outweighs the grace.

What do you mean by that? So the love that we feel for what the person or the pet or whatever it is that we lost or the situation that we were in, the love that we shared and that we had, it replaces slowly begins to replace the grief. So we end up shifting our focus away from the grief and into the love.

Okay? And when we feel the love, then we're more open to feeling that wholeness. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Cool.

You mentioned empowerment through self-identity. How does grief, which often shatters us, become a tool for reclaiming our selves?

 

That's a really good question. And this is something I talk about a lot, a lot, a lot in my groups, when someone passes, we don't only feel the physical loss of that person. But also the loss of the piece of ourselves, of our identity that we identified with them that we had in relationship to that person. Right. Because the role that they played is now no longer present. So it leads us to feeling this raw vulnerability, this confusion about what's next, this lack of purpose, this lack of wholeness, right. And part of regaining our sense of self is accepting that our identity is going to be different. And different doesn't mean that it just means different, because human beings often associate different with something worse than what they already had. And this again, is subconscious, right?

Because human beings, they don't like change. I know, that's for sure. Right. And because we have very definitive ideas about what life is supposed to be and how it's supposed to look. And when life doesn't pan out that way, we think that there is no alternative that's ever going to allow us to feel whole and give us back that sense of well-being. Right? There’s always going to be a deep sense of grief, right? So the person that we lost. But that doesn't mean that others won't come into our lives, that will bring us that sense of purpose and joy and contentment. Right? Those things are not limited to one person. You can receive them from other people, but it will be different. It will look different.

Yeah. And we're always insistent that life has to be a certain way with certain people. And this way we close ourselves off. We don't leave ourselves open to possibilities. Yes. And again, as we move into our new reality, our identity is going to shift organically.

It's going to adapt. And it happened so slowly that a lot of times we don't even realize that it's happening because we're focused on our grief. And it's in this case where it's really important not to hold on to guilt. Yeah. Because a lot of people have survivor's guilt because they feel like, should I have done differently? What could I have done to, you know, offset this?

And we always talk about that separately. You and I, we we've discussed this before, but I want to just on this train of thought, guilt does not allow us to embrace our new reality.

It won't allow us to move forward because we feel that if like we're afraid that if we don't honor that, somehow we're not honoring. If we move forward, we're not honoring our loved one that has passed, or we're forgetting them, or somehow we're doing a disservice to their memory, even. Right. But this is untrue. Yeah, yeah, it's untrue because the life that you shared with the loved one that is passed, the memories that you made are always with you.

So it's about taking them the memories and the experiences with you into who you're becoming. Post-passing.

Understand? Yeah, yeah.

That's great. Right? Yeah. I love what you said about, you know, different things come into your life in and out and like, you know, once again, I keep going back to it. But, you know, we're thinking about when and if we should get another little puppy.

And like, we love Jilly. We knew what you know. We know it won't be the same. We know that. And I think that's good that we can, you know, understand that now before we even moving forward. But I love people come into your life, you know, you lose someone, somebody else comes in.

I think that's important. because when we understand that the only constant is change.

Yes. Then we're not afraid of it so much. Yeah, we're more inclined to embrace it. Yes, yes. All righty.

What's one belief you’ve changed about grief after doing this work for so many years? Something you used to think was true, but no longer is or longer. You do feel Did I read it right?

I don't know if I would say changed. I would rather say expanded. Okay. Because I've always known that our human life is not a period, and that we return to our spiritual home when we transition from our human life. And you and I have talked about this in detail from my books right now, what I was unaware of many years ago was the extent to how tangible our communication and our connection to our loved ones are after they've transitioned.Almost every single one of my clients has in some way, shape or form had a sign, a communication or an event that has happened to them from their loved ones that are on the other side that are beyond human explanation.

So they know that it could only come from them right. And these can be small or grand.

It doesn't matter. What matters is that it brings them so much comfort and joy because they know that their loved ones are still there. I've had a few clients also share with me their experiences and their documented needs, which is really fascinating where they've seen and experienced and talk to their loved one. Life does not end with the dropping of the body, right? The body is just a vehicle. Yes, it's just that our form of communication changes and depending on how often each one of us is to, that will determine what we see and what we receive and how we connect. And I mean, it's really I've seen parents who've lost children and somehow they've had some signs or indications and they are. So I mean, it just lets them. Yeah. Right out of their grief. I mean, it's really amazing to watch.

That's good. Would you think that happens to us all or some. Yes. Some. No. Or does every if you're looking to you have to look for it.

Well it's possible for all of us I don't want to say look for it. I would say be open to it okay. Pay attention. Because sometimes people will say to me, you know, such and such happened. And I swore it was, you know, my, you know, beloved so-and-so who passed. And it was like that song that he liked and the place that he loved. And yes, it was the other person. And they said something to, you know, and they just start lining them up and they're like, wow, what a great coincidence.

And I'm always like this, you know, it's not a coincidence, you know? And so when they

if it happens enough, then they start to say, wait a second, I've seen now this or this has happened or that has happened, and they start to connect the dots, and then they come with questions and they say, is it possible?

That someone who has passed can still connect with me because they don't entertain it. What happens with the passing of someone and with grief is it makes us start to ask those esoteric questions. What happens after we die? Where do we go?

What is the purpose of our life? Does it end? Is this all there is? And those questions lead to more questions lead to more questions. And when we start focusing, you know, it's that old expression that says where attention, those energy flows. So when we start asking those questions, then those answers start to kind of come in. We start having conversations, we start reading more. Right. And this is sort of like the silver lining of grief.

Yeah. Yeah. And I would imagine those experiences, they can help people to, to get over the grief knowing, right, that they had this connection, this feeling, am I correct?

Yeah. Especially with people who are who've lost a child. Oh yeah. Especially with people who've lost children or spouses that were very, very connected. You know, again, it depends on the intensity of the love and connection you had with the person who's passed. So I've had, for example, someone would say something like, you know, someone, a colleague at work past, and we all went to the funeral and then we went for drinks after.

It was a great night, you know. And I see someone would say that to me. But then if someone in their family passive is a completely different experience, and that's not a judgment, but it's the fact that our connection to our colleague is not the same as a connection, obviously, to our family member.

Yeah, yeah. So we internalize it differently. We experience it differently. Yes. Yes, absolutely. All right. Grief is often described as love with nowhere to go. What do you think the world most needs to unlearn about grief?

So I think this ties into what we're just talking about right now. Grieving is intensified right when we feel that we're never going to see or speak to our loved one again, and that nothing exists beyond the human life, and we just sort of disappear into some sort of void or nothingness.

But when we learn, and especially when we have personal evidential proofs, right and personal is the key word here that our life continues in a different form, spiritual form, after our human existence. And that in spite of that, we're still connected to our loved one, and we can communicate with them even as we exist now.

And until we ourselves return home, right when we truly grasp that truth, I mean, we truly understand it now. We understand what it means when we say that love is eternal. Because love never ceases to exist. There’s no place where love stops. Yeah, because it's the creative force of the universe, right? So.

I can tell you only that my clients have connected with loved ones from the other side, either somehow, on their own, or even through a reputable medium. Facilitator. Their grief is lifted. They are transformed into a space of release and joy, knowing that their loved one is safe and happy and waiting for them. Absolutely. So that means that when we pass, if we believe that our loved one is waiting for us, when we pass, we know that someone is going to hold our hand.

Yeah, when we go through it, there will be someone who's going to meet us and walk that path with us home. Yeah, yeah. How often do they say that too? In death, sometimes where we come back, we've seen loved ones and people. They're ready to greet us and welcome us to that new realm of the world. So, yeah,

Well, there's been enough documented, NDEs, which are near-death experiences for those who are listening and don't know that, you know, I think we have the gist.

You know, there are many books written on this. There are a couple that I really like also written by reputable therapists and doctors who have researched this subject and, you know, of the soul and what happens to us when we pass. So for those who are curious, those that's the reading material. And I think it just gives us a very profound understanding of not just death, but of life.

And when we know that death is not a period, we live life differently. Yeah. I mean, it mitigates all the fear. I was going to say, all the fear goes. Yeah, yeah. You know, I just I just got to say, I love when you come on the show. It's just always a pleasure. Thank you. I love being here. You know that.

Yeah. Yeah. It's insightful. We all learn I learn our guests watching learn. And I don't think you realize how much you're appreciated. I don't, so I'm just. Thank you. You’re quite welcome there. I was just going to say this. So with that, we will wrap this episode of choices podcast. I hope our time together was inspiring and motivating. Stay empowered and stay well.

You can watch this episode and all episodes on our website. Choices, gifts.com. Peace and blessings and we'll see you next time. All right. Thanks. Bye.