Episode 43: From Brownouts to Breakthroughs: Lynn’s 35-Year Journey in Recovery

In this inspiring episode of "You Always Have Choices," host Jay DePaolo welcomes his longtime friend Lynn from AA, who shares her journey from addiction to over 35 years of sobriety. Lynn reflects on her struggles in 1980s New York, the power of community, and finding purpose and joy well into her 70s. Her story is a hopeful reminder that healing is always possible.

 

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Podcast Transcript:

Hello all, and welcome to Choices, Books and Gifts where you always have choices. My name is Jay DePaolo. I'm the owner of choices Books and Gifts in New York City. It's a store dedicated to health, wellness and the recovery community. For over 30 years, I am the host of our podcast. You always have choices where we dive deep into stories of transformation, healing, and personal growth.

Today we welcome Lynn from AA a dear friend of mine for over 30 years. Lynn is here to share her story and talk about her journey. I'm delighted and honored to have her here with us as our special guest.

Hi, Lynn. Hey there. How are we doing today? Okay. I'm good. It's actually over. Like 37 years that we know each other.

So I know I'm going to put that. So that's something I can revisit and just put that in 8888. Oh, okay. I remember I remember you always tell me that day. All right, all right. So if you don't mind, I'm going to dive into some questions right away with you and get this wonderful podcast on it's way.

Its so  good to be here.

Oh, I'm glad you feel that way. And I'm so glad you are here. It's fantastic. So number one, Lynn, can you take us back to when you and Jay first met? What do you remember about those days?

Really?

Well, I remember I have a I mean, it's the 80s are a little cloudy for me. Me too. Sort of was in a, not really a blackout, but sort of a brownout for most of it. But I do remember coming out of my apartment. My apartment was right up the block from whatever it was then. Brickworks or brickyard. It was called, and it was a hot summer night.

I remember I had I still remember almost what I was, my uniform that summer. It was just like this tight little jean skirt and, you and Bobby and Jeff and maybe hamlet. You were all, like, moving Bobby somewhere. And I went into the bar, and you clowns came in afterwards, and you were all rowdy, and I'm like, oh, I like I like these guys. And so that was 88. I got sober at 90. So it was kind of a short run with you, but it seemed like a much longer time. And, you know, I just what I remember is a lot of laughing. I remember a lot of drinking and, you know, playful stuff. Right? No, I agree, that's the way I see it is.

And I love the way you said, you know, it was like a brownout because there's nothing I remember that complete. I just know of times that that, you know, certain nights we hung out, certain nights we did other things. But it was sort of just like that. And it was short, as you say. I know that you have a long career, which we'll get into in a little while.

And, that may even come up right now. So what was your relationship to alcohol and drugs if you use drugs? I'm not sure. What was it like back then? Oh, I mean, that was the end. And yeah, drugs were part, you know, Coke. I loved doing coke. Pot. I always had pot, but if I didn't have either of them, I was okay.

But I had to have alcohol like. Yeah, that was that was my thing I had to have if I had the other, it was great, but the alcohol was a must and the 80s, my mom died in 82, so that's kind of where I crossed that imaginary line into a really dark place. So the 80s were really like a, like a brownout, and I was pretty much drinking around the clock.

And I would, you know, if I was going out to the sports bar at eight, nine, 10:00 o Clock, then I was already trashed. And if there was a game on, I put my money down on the bar and I'd be there. And then at some point I would just kind of get up, leave my money on the bar, go home, get right down the block, knocked down a couple of drinks, and then go back to the bar and drink some more.

So it was just 24 hour drinking. Yeah. And really just crazy behavior. I was just a crazy girl in this city, you know? Yeah. That's what you remember about me. I was just a kind of crazy lost girl. Who. Yeah. And I was having so much fun. Well, not just you. All of us. All of us were. Were crazy.

Some of the things. When I think back, I'm amazed that, you know, we're still around, that we came out, you know, more or less unscathed. So you know, you know, I always hung out with guys like you guys. Yeah, like I did or more. Because then, you know, I it was normal. So I didn't even I didn't even realize that I was an alcoholic.

I honestly didn't that veil of denial was so thick that I just hung out with, you know, guys, women, whoever drank like I did. Yeah. So I didn't have, you know, any idea in the day that I got sober, I wasn't one of these people who said, I've got to stop. I want to stop. I'm going to try to stop.

I'm going to drink this. I'm going to have one. I drank until I stopped. Yeah.

What do you remember most about your early days in recovery? What was that like? Well, what I remember, you know, it's funny, when you look back almost 35 years, it will be 35 years next month. I look back and I remember it being just such a beautiful, innocent time.

Now, if I look at my journal, I. It's probably not what I was saying. You all I was saying like, what the heck am I doing, you know, and I walked into the mustard seed and I, you know, I thought the guys in the raincoats, I don't know why we always think there's going to be guys in yellow coats. And, you know, I walked in there and I think I must have gotten the yellow pages out. I don't know, I've maybe I looked up I don't know what I did. I mean, I don't know how what if I didn't know anything about AA. So but I know there was a Yellow Pages involved, and I know there was making a phone call.

I said, I didn't say I was an alcoholic. I probably just said whatever. And they asked me where I lived, and they told me where the mustard seed was. Yeah. And they said, there's a beginner meeting at 615. And I was thinking, wow, I got like the first day of school or something, like, I, I caught the beginning of a class because I said, oh, will there be other people starting today?

And I think people in the group must just get the craziest calls, right? They said, just go, you know, just go. You'll be okay. And I went in there and I saw everybody was so young and beautiful and smiling and laughing and tan. And I looked around and I thought like, And my I was so, oh, it's like my face was just rock sad.

And I thought, I'm never going to smile like that. That's never going to be I'm never going to be one of these people. And I sat all the way in the corner and I didn't hear a thing, but I did hear them say, keep coming, come back tomorrow. And I get like, I didn't have anything else. I had lost my job.

My family wasn't talking to me, I didn't I there was no place else for me to go. Yeah. So I went back and I got a sponsor the next day. Terry, Terry know we just a few months ago and at the end I went to the back room, which was the beginner meeting. And it was crazy back then.

I mean, there were so many people getting sober and it was just a whole different thing, you know, it's a whole different time. No social media, no phones, no, you know, all, all of this stuff and, and I, I heard her say, you know, get a sponsor. This is like the only, the only thing I heard. And I went up to her after the meeting and I said, I need a sponsor.

She said, I'll be a sponsor. Okay. You know, it turned out she lived right around the right, like I lived Third Avenue between 34th and 35th. She was on 34th, right off third. Right. So the journey began and she just said, just go there every day. And I did. I went there every day, and some days I call her and I couldn't move. So I put on some lipstick and go over to the meeting.

I sort of remember, you know, some of the stories we've told each other over the years. And I remember you saying, Jake, sometimes that because, you know, 37 had that big hill and he'd say, sometimes, really, I wasn't looking forward to climbing that hill to go to that meeting, but I would just get my ass up that hill, I can remember and I couple of times because I would detoxed in the mustard seed, like, right, a hospital.

I should have been in a detox, I should have had rehab. But I didn't know anything about I didn't know anything about it. I was drinking at the very minimum, a quart of vodka a day. Yeah, minimum. So to go from that to just nothing like I. I was sick and there were a couple of times, like hailed a cab to go there.

I can remember times coming out of the sports bar and I literally lived across the street and hailing a cab. And I'd say over there.

So those days were just, you know, and this summer and it was just like I connected, you know, I just got connected and I made friends and it was just a different time than it is today.

Yeah. I, you know, I have to agree, I, I came in a lot late. You already in you had many years. But yeah I remember when I, when I did come in that that's there was something so special about that particular room and, and front end back there was just, you know, and the community and the friendships.

You know, I like you said, I thought, man, I'll never smile again. My life is over. And the fun I used to have, I mean, we'd be in restaurants laughing the loudest, being the loudest, just because, you No kind of laughter. Like sober laughter. No. And I remember sitting in the mustard seed because I, you know, I was eight years sober.

I was eight months pregnant with my youngest. We had just moved to Jersey, you know, Billy had relapsed and life was really difficult. And I'm sitting there. I had just gotten a job on that block and a part time job. So I was going to the 12:45, and I was sitting there and you walked in and I always tell, I always say that it was one of the top highlights of my sobriety and mine too.

I was so afraid to go there, so afraid because I had the restaurant in the neighborhood and I'm saying, oh, all my customers are going to see me, and I did. I saw half of them, and half of them said, it's about time you got here. We been saving a seat for you, but seeing you there, someone who was so close to me just immediately made me at ease.

That was so wonderful seeing you. You were sober about four months so first four months, I think, when I met you. Okay in there. And I just, I still I just still remember. I remember where I was sitting, you walked in and I was just, oh, who was the best? You were right on that wall on the side. Yep. Yeah. And I was eight months.

Well, not maybe not eight months, but I was pretty pregnant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, so, let's continue. Was there a specific moment or turning point that, you know, you said I have to change. I need to get sober. Was there anything or were you just sick and tired of being sick and tired, or was it, you know, I had gotten fired from a job on, like, July 2nd, right?

My anniversaries, the 16th, and it was at like 830 in the morning. I walked in and I thought I was doing really well at this job. And my boss, who I was very friendly with, said, we have to let you go.

And I begged him. I was really anxious and I was bottoming out like I was really I was striking around the clock and I wasn't even getting drunk anymore.

I was just quite cranky. And yeah, and I came home and my friend Bob, who lived next door to me, was on vacation that week, and he was taking his laundry out. Beautiful Monday morning and I told him I got fired. He said, go upstairs, I'll be right there. And he came back and he came in and he said, he said, you need to stop drinking.

He said, if you stop drinking, your whole life will change. And nobody has ever said that to me before, right. Nobody had ever said to me, you need to stop drinking. I mean, I got fired from jobs from employers who said, you drink too much, but, you know, just went over my head, right. So the seed

was planted and it was another two weeks of really bad drinking and drugging and bad and then I woke up on the morning of July 16th, and I heard this little voice say, today's the first day of the rest of your life.

And I went to the I didn't drink, and I woke up the next day and I didn't want to drink. I thought, what fuck happen? Like, why don't I want to drink? And each day I didn't want to drink like that. And it baffled me for the longest time. And then, I mean, I had no time or maybe sometime realize that, you know, it was God that took it away, I think.

I think he just got so tired of me and my antics and my personal adventures that they say in the big book that he just said, here, do plop me in the mustard seed. He said, well, I'm going to do it for you is take away the obsession. You got to do the rest. And that's just how I've always looked at it.

Yeah,  you really did do the rest, because you went in and you were like a Terry. You took on Sponsees and you worked the program hard. You did so much service. I remember the chairing of the meetings and all the other things. You threw yourself into the program. And I think that's why you're so very successful at it. And I also remember you always got really good jobs. You were always a good job getter. You know, back in those days, you'd open the New York Times, you circle all these jobs, you put on your best little suit, you'd go to an employment agency, and I cleaned up well. And they always loved me. They gave me this great job.

She great. You know, and I'd lose it. Yeah, yeah, but I always got great jobs. Absolutely. That's what I remember. Have you faced any close calls with your sobriety over the years? Any time that, you know, you thought you wanted to go back out again or something, was anything tough?

Well, as you know, I married someone I counted days with Billy. Yeah. And we were just sort of like the, you know, the it couple in the Mustard Seed. We sponsor everyone. We chaired meetings. We just we were, you know, we held people together. We had Christmas at our house, Thanksgiving at our house. I started having kids. I had, you know, two kids, my first two kids in my 40s.

And, you know, life was just beyond my wildest dreams. And then out of the blue, he tells me he's been drinking for two years. And, you know, my whole world just exploded. And the next 14 years with him. Now, of course, when this happened, I had three little kids and It was it was just really a nightmare of evictions having him arrested. Family court, public assistance, eviction, get a get a great job, all this stuff.

And there were times when this one for 14 years. So I was from when I was like eight years sober till I was 20 something, you know, where and I didn't have a sponsor and I wasn't going to meetings. And I remember lying in bed one night saying what the heck I mean who would even care if I drank?

And I felt right away, like, wait, hold on. Like, this is a gift that you got. Like, you can never have that thought. So I mean, that was the closest I came. I don't really I'm really blessed. The upset. There's nothing there's I, I'm I am Michael Miller. Our friend Michael gave me this the no matter what club.

And I'm a very happy member of it. So, yeah, you know, there are times when I'm with my kids and they're drinking like an espresso martini, like I like, why wasn't that around for me? Okay, I just want to I that's all I want to know. I just want to taste it.

Yeah. I remember those years. I, you know, I never realized you didn't have a sponsor though.

But I remember we would talk a lot on the phone and how it was so hard. Terry was my sponsor was the beginning of when we met, when I had 8 or 9 years. And then she relapsed, and then I was sponsor, and then all this was going on.

And then a couple of years later, she came back, she got a couple of years, and I asked her to sponsor me again. She said, you have more time than me. I said, you're always going to be my sponsor. All right. And then she relapsed again. So I went a long time without a sponsor. Well, you know, the

Now with all these years later. Just curious, do you do you have a sponsor today?

Yes. Okay .Mona Who's you know Mona. Yeah I do, she's sober 40 years and I asked her about, I don't know, eight years ago, but I had someone genie. I saw her at Terry's funeral wasn't she there Mona?.  No. Okay. But, yeah, no, I have a sponsor. And I call my sponsor  Good good. Because I have a lot of sponsees, you know, I mean, I try to do it and I need to take care of myself. Yeah, yeah. Is it different for you? And I'm going completely off kilter here. Like, How old  you know  that. Yes. That the meeting.

Is it different now that the meetings are not as physical as they were years ago? That a lot of it zoom do you think? Very different. It's very different.

I love zoom. I do everything you do. Yeah. More so than physically showing up the way we did years ago. I don't really go to that many live meetings. My whole life is just different today. I live in Westchester. I work from home most days.

I started the when the pandemic hit. I started the zoom group, for most of the mustard seed meetings. That's great to change. Group is very, very strong. And I have a lot of sponsors on that group. I do service and  I'm on it.I go to probably if I go to a meeting every day, sometimes two, sometimes three because I'm sitting right here. so I'll go on.

Yeah, yeah. That did that's one thing it did do is it made it exceptionally convenient. And you can go to meetings all over the world, all sorts. Fantastic. I mean it made it. Yes, very easy. But it also created, think that element of it's too easy. So I hear people say, no, I didn't get there. Well why not? I mean, come on, you can just go on zoom. So, you know, I think it opened up a whole world for alcoholics and for the better. Yeah, I think so. Yes, I do think so. I think there are people that I go on meetings with that I've never met, that I feel as close to as if I saw them every day gotcha.

So I do think that it's very possible to have close relationships and have a home group on zoom. Cool, cool. All righty.

Now, what is it like today? So the exact question is how has your definition of a good life changed since you got sober?

I mean, it's changed a lot. It’s taken on a different meaning in 35 years. You know, like when I got sober, I was, you know, I was young, I was single, I had big hair.I was, you know, I was I had four cats. I lived in a studio and, you know, I had no rent was like $300.

Everything was just free and fun and, you know, getting married and having kids was like such a life beyond my wildest dreams, right? Right. Love and have kids. And then, you know, going through those struggles in those years with Billy and raising kids and having him and he ultimately died, you know, he ultimately. Yeah, sure. And when he died, it was 12 years ago.

I was 59. And, you know, my kids were still in the house. And as they started leaving, I was like, Now I'm in my 60s and I'm like, wow, who is Lynn?

Like, who, who am I? I, you know, had someone sponsor Billy's wife with his mother. Somebody, someone was been somebody something. So the past really 12 years have been finding myself. And I'm happier now than I've ever, ever been. Okay, I'm 71 years old. You look fantastic. When I turned 70 last year, I was like a little kid turning five.

I told everybody, I'm going to be 70. I was so excited about turning 70 and I don't know, I just feel like

I owe it all to sobriety.

And that's got to be sobriety. You know, most people, you know, they don't look forward to 70. Here you are I can't wait I feel fantastic, I'm in great shape. I love it .

You know, that's the best yet to come. Yes, I agree I'm still looking for my last love. But. And I don't know where he is, but I think he's out there somewhere. Anybody listening out there  you're going to have a lot of people listening and loving this. So also what kind of things did you do back then that you still do now to stay sober?

What other do you have certain routines that keep you grounded? And, you know, because I guess it can go either way with a lot of time. Does it change through the years? I mean, I still I still every day when I wake up, when I, when I get back into bed with coffee and I'm looking because I don't remember, I count my days. So I'm, I have 12,742 days And I do that every, every day.

I count and I say, I'm not going to church today. So I keep everything very much in the day. You know, I pray, I go to meetings, I read the literature right. I do a lot of service. I do everything. To me, it sounds like that's what you did years ago.

And you're still doing it? Yeah, yeah, I just do everything because I like. If it isn’t broke, don't fix it. Okay? This one. I know you're going to be real good at two. So what would, your advice be to someone just starting out who's overwhelmed, unsure, like we were? My life's over. I'm going into recovery. What? What do you say to somebody like that?

I see people every single day who are like that. And You know I try to tell them that I know exactly how you feel. Because when I came in and I heard people saying, you know, oh, I was $100,000 in debt, and now I own my own business and I'm like, good for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You don't understand my problems. You don't understand. But we all come in with just a shitload of trauma right behind us. And there's something about, like, putting it all on the shelf. Like I just get a sponsor who's going to drill that into you? Who's going to really support you? Just letting it all go. Learn how to stay in the day, get connected in a meeting, whether to whether it's like get connected in a meeting. There's somehow if you stay sober, your life will get better. Absolutely. And, you know, I try to tell people this all the time, and I see that loss that they have. And yeah, you know, I promise them this, you know, like I promise people things and that's and that's a promise you, you keep if they follow the direction that this too shall happen to them.

And I'm a great believer in that. So I love the way you promise. I am telling you I promise them that. I do these things. Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Okay. Looking back, is there anything that surprises you about the whole journey? Anything that I'm shocked that this, Yeah. Everything. I mean, I came in and I sat down, and I'm trying to remember, like, what I was. I think I was thinking, okay, I guess I'm not directing, but I didn't know how, like, how do I even know that there was this whole program and this all this, like, life changing stuff, like, if I knew what was ahead of me, I might have said, I think I'll come back when I'm feeling a little bit better, you know, like, it's good that we get, we get, we get it a little at a time. We just get enough each day to absorb that day, right? Right.

You know the steps. I didn't really do the steps very well in the beginning. I was just, you know, don't drink and go to dances. Yeah, yeah. So it all surprises me, like all of the things being able to, like, look at myself in the mirror and like, what I see, you know, being able to be honest and be honest with people like who thought like I could do that? Like I couldn't do that.

I remember when I was drink, I mean, I'd see you in the street and I said, I just had a slice of pizza. I'd say, oh, I had a hamburger. Nothing. The truth was not good enough for me. I had to lie about absolutely everything. Everything. And I made up stories.

Yes, yes. Like my life wasn't dramatic enough. I had to create more drama. Like more. More and more. Yeah, yeah , I me too. I think that's, I think that's alcohol off of. Hey we're it's all of us. Yes. And that's, that's when you come in and you hear everybody else say they do too. Yes, yes.

I think that's what you know, as they say, attraction, not promotion. That's what or keeps us there is that. Oh, my God, this person is me up there. They're talking directly to me because that's who I am. And that that was the most comforting thing. I have always been very upfront about my sobriety from day one.

Right. Okay. Well, I was getting sober because I thought, well, if I let people see me like that, I might as well let them see me like this. Like this. So I have just like, if you know me, you know I'm sober. They know what work they know upstairs. They know you, you know, like, if you know me, you know, I'm sober.

So. Absolutely. And as a result. And I don't recommend that to people, I don't ever say you should do it. That's just very personal for each person. But I've had people, my kids, they tell their friends like, oh, yeah, my mom sober a long time. But then people have come to me and said, oh, I heard you sober.

Like I have a problem. So, you know, whatever you do, you know, even if you don't tell anybody, you change so much that people want to know why, they will absolutely know. And that's you. Do you where it like, you know, as a garment, your personality, everything screams sobriety and every word out of your mouth. Absolutely, absolutely. That's beautiful.

Let's see what else we got here. What's what's something about recovery that you wish more people knew or understood that are still out there sick and suffering? I don't know that it that it works.

Yes. This is like the only thing that works. And I don't know why. I don't know why we're all so different. Like we all come to this from such different places, different backgrounds, different ages, different to different families. Absolutely. We all come from this, but we get here and we have this monumental change.

Is it a cult? I don't know, brainwashed? I think so. I remember when I came around and, I was doing some outpatient rehab and, and I said, you guys are just going to brainwash me. And the guy looked at me and said, maybe, maybe your brain needs to be washed a little bit. You know, I was okay with that when somebody said, I think they brainwash you.

And I thought, I am. Maybe I need that. Yeah, I need that every day. So you know, I know it's kind of look, it's not a cult and we don't get brainwashed. But in a sense, I feel like I do because all everything that's up here is still up there. So I just, you know, I went through like, so in all those years with sobriety, I would I would wake up every morning and wake up in just anxiety.Yeah. I look back on all of that and

We still got infected, but we still died, right. Still I still what but life on life's terms and you just know how to deal with it. So I. I don't worry anymore about things. I don't live in anxiety. I don't have any resentments. I just choose not to. Yeah, I think having resentments, having anxiety is a choice that we make.

And I choose not to. And I I'm very sad. I'm very sad. I'm very, you know, happy. I mean, you know, some days I'm really happy and other days I'm just okay. And that's what I wanted when I was drinking, I always just wanted to be okay. Yep .Perfect. I love how this is going end. All right. So, if you could say something to your younger, struggling self, what would it have been?

You know what I think about that so much you do, I look at her and she was so innocent, really, and so likable like I was really were. You still are. Well, Thank you.

And I was just had no, self-respect. I had none, I don't know, I would say. I just don't know, like, I would just want to hold me, you know, and I would want. You know, all the normal things like stop drinking, you know, like. Yeah.

Or, But, you know, my path was my path, and I was going to what I did. And it's hard to look and say, like, if I hadn't married this guy when I was 19 for like a year, you know, when my mother said, no, you're not doing that. You know, if I had listen, if I had, like, what direction would my life have come in?

Every decision that we make has a consequence. So, you know, I could look back and say, don't marry that guy, right. Or, you know, don't. But I don't know, I would like myself more. I wish I'd like myself more. I liked what you said about hugging and loving yourself more because, I mean, for me too, there was no self esteem there.

There was only shame. And the more I drank and the more I drugged, the more I lied and and had more and more and more shame on top of it. And sobriety, taught me a whole new way to look at that. And like you said, you know, I have good days. I really I got gotta say this.

I want to say maybe I have a tough day, but it's never a bad day. And I learned something in eight months in the day. Right. And I remember in AA, you know, I remember you. I'd walk in, especially in the beginning. So I was having a tough time. And I hear you always hear what you need to in a meeting.

And I would hear someone say, you know, at any time today you can start your day over again. And I remembered that. And I said, you know, I never forget sitting in a meeting one time was a Sunday afternoon and the mustard seed. And I was just like, oh, this meeting sucks. What am I doing? You know, like it was just like the worst meeting .

If you have a full day outside, it's dark inside this guy and I wasn't paying attention. And all of a sudden he said, and my grandmother used to say, if you're going to pray, don't worry. If you're going to worry, don't pray. And I went, oh yeah, wow, that's why I'm here. , You know, so it's just there's no bad meeting, no bad meaning.

I always I've never went to a meeting and walked out, said shit, I wish I wasn't there never, never, never. So I mean, we both are in agreement with so many things. And you are such a big part of my life. I love you dearly. You helped me so much. You babysat my kids for me when they were… and maybe I still love I. Yes, I remember when you moved out of new Jersey.

I'm the guy who drove that giant truck. Me and, Kevin and, and Mickey, we drove that to. Where do we move you two? You were one of my only friends when I moved to Jersey. Philly had just relapsed. Yeah, brand new baby. A two year old and a ten year old. And nobody would relapse. Nobody from the mustard seed was talking to me because of that reason.

They can be harsh sometimes. You're still sober. That should have been the only important thing. Yeah, I think Billy and I were such a tight ride that when he drank, I don't know, it all just kind of

blew up that scared. Yeah, but you were there for me. I remember one time driving through this tunnel and so you could give me, like, I don't know, ten bucks or 20 bucks, so I could deal.

Yeah. Same here, same here. So with that, our lovely podcast is going to come to an end. Oh my God, this was so much fun. When can we do it again?. So in closing, we will wrap up this episode of the Choices podcast. I hope our time together was inspiring and motivating. Stay empowered and stay well.

You can watch this episode and all episodes on our website at choices gifts.com. Peace and blessings and we'll see you next week. Thank you so much, Lynn. Love you.