Episode 45: Identity, Recovery, and the Path to Self-Love – A Conversation with Leda Mitrofanis

Jay DePaolo and author Leda Mitrofanis explore how mistaken identity, shame, and labels affect addiction—and how self-love, forgiveness, and spiritual connection can guide true recovery. 

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Welcome everyone. My name is Jay DePaolo, owner of Choices Books and Gifts in New York City. Our store is dedicated to health, wellness, and recovery. We've been serving the community for over 30 years. I'm the host of our podcast. You Always Have Choices, where we dive deep into stories of transformation, healing, and personal growth. Today, I have a regular. We welcome Leda Mitrofanis for her Sixth visit with us. She is an insightful author and thought Leda in personal growth, self-discovery, and emotional health. Her Human Case of Mistaken Identity series explores self-identity, self-perception, and the journey towards self-love and authenticity.

Her first book, "Me, Myself, and I," examines how our experiences shape and sometimes distort our sense of self. In her second book, Self-love The Journey Home, Leda guides readers on a transformative path to embracing self-compassion and finding a home within themselves, with a background in psychology and spirituality and a commitment to empowering others. Lead off this practice called wisdom, to help readers cultivate authentic self-love and unlock their true identities.

Welcome, my dear. Welcome. Thank you for having me again. It's always nice to be here and be with you and have another one of our discussions. Absolutely. And it always is a pleasure because it's always so informative, and I believe that our listeners get so much out of it. So I'm grateful that you keep coming on the show as well.

Thank you so much. You're welcome. I'm going to jump right into the questions, if that's okay with you. Yeah. As we do, as we do. Alright. So number one. Okay. You've written and spoken about mistaken identity as related to our human and spiritual identity. How does addiction compound or create mistaken identity?

Good question. So first, I just want to clarify, for those of us who've never listened to any of our previous podcasts together about the human and the spiritual identity. So, in short, the human identity is the part of us that identifies with the materialistic world, our daily existence. So it's our friends, our families, jobs, careers, and so forth. While our spiritual identity is our true selves, it's our existence beyond human life. It's our eternal being, the epicenter, and the total of everything that we are. And both of our identities reside within the human body, so to speak, or construct. Right. So we know that different reasons would cause someone to get pulled into addiction, right? These reasons stemmed from challenges or difficult days and problems, and some extreme situations that we encounter in our human identity.

And so, we grasp the solutions and coping skills from this space, but it's actually from our spiritual identity, from our higher consciousness that solutions and healing can be found. So like when Einstein said, you know, solutions are never found at the level of the problem, right? So the concept of mistaken identity comes in when we are completely unaware of our spiritual identity, and we only exist in our human, limited form. Because we've been taught that we're human beings having a spiritual identity when it's the other way around. We are spiritual beings having a temporary human identity, and this understanding and perspective change everything. It changes everything. And people who are addicted or get into addiction are because they are disconnected from this part of themselves, from their spiritual identity. In essence, that's what's happening.

Yes, yes. That's a fantastic answer. And that was my findings. I was lost until I found that spiritual side. I thought, as you had mentioned, that I was here living a life, and I didn't have the spiritual part. Yeah. When I found that, it changed everything. So thank you for that. Can you talk about the concept of spiritual identity versus psychological identity in recovery?

So that's a continuation of what we just said. Right. So when we're in recovery and we're searching for understanding and healing, what we call our psychological identity or our human identity, right? Those terms can be used interchangeably, but they will only take us so far. It will be effective in mitigating the behaviors that led to the addiction. And it'll teach us strategies and coping skills and such. But they're not going to heal us internally. They don't heal the wounded soul. Okay. Right. So it's only when we delve into who we truly are, into our spiritual identity, and understand what that is. Both conceptually and practically, and tangibly applying that is our guiding force in ways that we can then begin to really begin the process of healing.

 

Right. So when you really think about it, in truth, both approaches are needed because they work in tandem with each other, and to touch on what you said before, the 12-step program is, in essence, a spiritual program. Absolutely. Yes. It's a spiritual program. It doesn't rely solely on, you know, our human understanding of psychology to help us heal.

Absolutely. So you really need both. Understood. Yeah, yeah.

Is there such a thing as an addict identity? If so, how can it become limiting even in recovery?

So this is really a good question. So we know that the first step. Right? Or one of the first steps in recovery is self-admission that you are in a specific addiction. And the purpose of this is to state and acknowledge our awareness of our condition. And this is necessary because we can't heal what we're not aware of. Right. In essence. However, labels have a very funny way of sticking to us subconsciously for life if we're not careful and conscious of it. Because what happens is that, and this is where a label can become detrimental, because as human beings, we always label ourselves right culturally, ethnically, racially, it’s just society at large. And you know what we're doing in society. But when you have a label, you live up to that label; you become identified with that label. And that label then limits our potential to what we can be without it.

Does that make sense? Absolutely.  So we only live up to that expectation, which we cap off, and then eventually we have to transfer the label to really expand ourselves. Love it beyond the identity itself that we've aspired to. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Trying to describe it in layman's prose as much as I can. You know, for so many years as a person who drank and drugged, and that was who I was, and that was my identity. And, you know, until I learned differently, I needed to change that. And you explain that beautifully.

Yeah. Yeah. Good. I'm glad. I want to make sure that it's comprehensive enough for everyone to understand. No. No, trust me, you're very clear. And I love the way you explain it. You do a wonderful job. Thank you.

What patterns do you see in how people define themselves while in active addiction?

What kind of things do they do?

So first of all, we are defined. All humans, right? We're defined by the belief systems that we have inherited and have been conditioned by in our early years, childhood years. Right. These belief systems, along with wounds and traumas, define our self-perception and all our resulting behaviors. And these behaviors include coping and defense mechanisms. Right. Because those eventually become our patterns. So, at the bottom, the core patterns are a few for all humans. And they are, I'm not good enough. I'm unworthy. I'm undeserving. I'm unlovable. I'm bad and wrong. There's something innately wrong with me. These are core wounds. But in an addict's mind, they are heightened and magnified, which leads to catastrophic sizing. And that compounds their negative effect.

So it's almost like upping the ante. Yeah. So it affects them more intensely than your average person? Yes. Understood. Understood? Yes.

Many are in recovery. Talk about feeling lost when they first get sober. Why does identity confusion often intensify in an early recovery?

So when I think that when someone is in the height of their addiction, their mental faculties are clouded and their self-perception is skewed, right? And the mind can create an alternate identity, which actually keeps them in addiction and convinces them that they deserve or need to be there. And that's kind of a form of self-punishment, self-sabotage. But as these perceptions are challenged during recovery, the addicted mind does not want to let go of that identity because that identity kept them safe from the pain that they were avoiding. Right. If these identities are released, the recovering addict will have to face the pain and take on the issues that brought on the addiction in the first place. And if they don't have the tools to do this, they're going to feel lost. Yeah. And feeling lost is merely the sense of being in an unfamiliar territory. And the question now becomes, who am I without my addiction?

Yeah. You know, there's a saying in Alcoholics Anonymous where we talk about, you know, no one likes change, especially an addict, even if it's good change. And I find that in life nowadays, even with people, you can make a change, and it's good for you. But you, it feels so uncomfortable at first. Well, yeah, because it's hard. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

And people feel that they can't. It's overwhelming. No doubt. No doubt about it. How do shame and guilt influence the way we see ourselves during and after addiction?

So this is great. I love this question. And shame and guilt are such profound emotions in addiction. First, again, we have to clarify. So the difference between the two. So shame internalized is the message that says I am that, whereas guilt says I did a bad thing. Yeah. So when we feel that we are bad, we are in effect saying that inherently there was like some manufacturer's defect with the motherboard when we were born, and therefore it's innate and cannot be healed or altered as opposed to guilt, which says I did a bad thing, which is behavioral and therefore a choice, and that can be altered. But in an addict's mind, there is no distinction. They don't distinguish between guilt and shame, behavior and inherent value.

Right. So they perceive it as the same. And that's what keeps them spiraling, if you will. After addiction. And with therapy, this starts to change because discernment begins to take a foothold. And it gives you that clarity.

And the addicted person then begins to see how their beliefs and incorrect internalized messages developed, and the choices that stemmed from those incorrect internalized messages formed. Right. Everything is a domino effect. So your belief systems lead to self-perceptions, to internalized messages, which then lead to behaviors, which lead to patterns, and our mind creates thoughts about this entire process that keeps us in that spiral until we become conscious that we have to change that. Right. But when that change starts to happen, that's where true healing begins. That's healing. When you break out of those patterns and you begin to understand that shame and guilt are just incorrect messages you internalized about yourself. But they're not true about who you are, right?

Right, right. I got to echo again, the way you explained it comes out beautifully, and anyone can understand, so thank you. Where do you begin when helping someone re-anchor themselves or rebuild

their identity from scratch?

So I think that's what essentially sometimes, when people are ill, it has to happen. You have to break them down and rebuild them. I know that was my experience, and that is an experience for most people, but they experience that breakdown in different ways. So for some people it could be addiction, for others it could be illness. For other people, it's divorce or bankruptcy. It's, you know, the method is varied, right, of things. But the process is the same. So when we start to connect that inner self, that's where we start. We have to start with identifying and understanding what your human is like. If I'm working with someone, what is their specific human conditioning, and what narrative did it create? Also, what belief systems did it create? Did you subconsciously adopt those and enact them as you got older?

What then became your self-perceptions? Right.

And then we go into the various patterns and behaviors. But this process also works backwards because we take someone's patterns. And then we can trace back to the origin, which sometimes is even more effective to do it that way. Yes. But in essence, what we do with it would matter no matter which way we do it; the process of healing and release, we do it through the lens of self-love. Because this is not about beating ourselves up. This is about coming home to ourselves. Right? And that's really important to do it through that lens. And I know you understand that it's the addicts themselves who are up tremendously. I know, I have little sayings like put down the baseball bat. Stop beating yourself up. It's so many things, and it's so important to stop doing that because it's just such a negative, negative thing we do.

What role does forgiveness, especially self-forgiveness, play in reclaiming identity after addiction?

It plays a massive role. I would imagine so. And there, you know, because we've talked about it. Self-forgiveness is the fifth and final step in the five components of self-love. And self-love is the path to reclaiming our identity recovery. Right. And, you know, book two, my second book, Self-love The Journey Home, is in detail all about this. So I recommend somebody pick it up if they're really interested in it. But in very, very short, it. Basically, it gives a wider spiritual understanding of the role that each of us plays in a relationship and the lessons that each of us has come to learn. Because relationships are a teaching tool. And when we come together with someone, there's something to be learned for each of us, and it'll be a different experience.

And when we start to understand this from the spiritual perspective, and I go into detail about that, you really understand that forgiveness is superseded by understanding. And I don't, you know, we could talk about it, but we would probably be here for another hour.

 

So I don't want to take off. You know, we're very limited both times. I think most of these things we can go on and on in depth into. So thanks for giving us the short version of that.

In recovery, what are the first signs that someone's true self is beginning to emerge? You know, I really like this question because it's something we never talk about that much. You will see the individual become calmer, more at peace, which is a sign of that. Self-acceptance is beginning to take a foothold. You do not see them berating themselves so much there. The judgment and the self, self-criticism, and the blaming and being in victimhood. They all start to dissipate slowly. You start to see the shift ever so slightly. Some of that guilt and shame begin to subside as a result, because they all go hand in hand. Right? They're less frayed. There's more self-trust, you know, but it all kind of happens together.

Yeah. Because they're all connected. They're all interconnected, you know. And the confidence comes back and things of that nature. I know that with you, a lot of your patients, I'm sure you see it even before they do, I think, oh yeah, even with me, people used to come up and say, hey, I see a real change in you, even though I didn't identify that.

Right, right. You know, just right. Right. And you'd be surprised. A big part of my work is just to hold up the faithful mirror. Yeah, yeah. Excellent.

What are the dangers of replacing an addiction with an identity built solely around being in recovery? And I see this a lot. Yeah, and this was kind of. We touched on it before. Right. So this is the case of attaching an external label for identification. And, you know, it's part of the human conditioning. We have labels. That's the way humans classify things. So we have labels that run the gamut socially, culturally, racially, whatever. But it's very detrimental to the human soul, especially when they're slapped on at a very young age, because it causes us to doubt and to distrust what we already innately know to be true about ourselves. It knocks out our inner knowing of our spiritual identity, and as such, we suppress it to the point where we can disconnect completely if we're not careful. And the goal in recovery is to discover and understand who we truly are beyond the labels. And we do this through our inner work and through our connection to self. That's really an important part of recovery, reconnecting to your inner self.

Yeah, and being able to play so much fear that, you know, it has to always evolve around there, which is better than not, but where they, you know, their whole life, every second, every moment of it is in a 12-step program. And I think sometimes, you know, you have to identify the difference between the two and

I don't know, I guess sometimes I've seen it happen. You know what it is. Once we identify with a label, it's very hard to let go of that. And we have to be careful not to use it as our crutch. Yes, after a certain point, because then it becomes a codependency on the label. You said it much better than I could, and you just strapped yourself to a label, and you won't be able to move beyond it.

Yes. And we do hold on to it out of fear because we're afraid that we're going to go back. But this is where the self-trust part of self-love comes in. Do I trust myself to know what my next right step is? Yeah, yeah. And to know that I have everything I need to accomplish that. Sure, Perfect. This is a big one because I know I needed a fantastic community, and it takes a village. But how does this community, where the supportive or toxic shape our identity during recovery?

So we know the expression, right? That says, show me who your friends are. I know, show me your friends and I'll tell you who you are. Yes, right. So I always say this, whether someone's in addiction or not. But even more important, right, when you're in addiction, it's very, very important to discern who is in your inner circle.

They have to be individuals who understand who you are at your core and are 100% for you. Three and a full stop. And in terms of greater community support, you want to gravitate to a community that possesses the qualities you wish to embrace in Aspire to. Yes, yes, that's the short answer. Absolutely. And I mean, when I was coming up in AA, they spoke all about stick with the winners and stick with the people you want, what they have. And that's why there are a lot of people in recovery. Trust me, you don't want what they have. They can be sober for 40 years. They're angry, discontent, unhappy. And you don't want that. And others have healed, moved on, and are very happy living a wonderful sober life. In recovery, any type of recovery. Yes, that may be. Are there practical exercises or self-reflection tools you recommend for someone trying to discover their identity without substances?

Yeah, sure. So, you know, one of my favorites is keeping a journal, but keeping a journal from the perspective.

Of observation and discernment. So as if you were bearing witness to your own life. So you put yourself in the third person as if you are observing your own life, your thoughts, your feelings. And the reason this is one of my favorite tools is because it serves two purposes, right? First, we know it allows you to process and release and put things on the page and get it out of your system and out of your head, but it also lets you look back at your progress so you can look back at where you were a month ago. Because a lot of times, as we move forward, we kind of forget where we started from. So when you look back, it gives you this sense of, oh, wow, look where I was a month ago. I didn't even realize how far I've come in a month, even if it's a small shift. And that gives you the incentive to keep going, right? So I think that's why I love that tool. The other one that you and I've talked about a lot is getting creative art, music, dance movement, gardening, cooking, all of these creative, inspirational activities.

Right. Because they come directly from the spirit, they are inspirational. So they take you out of your head and put you into a more singular, singularly minded focus of being in the moment. Right. Which gives you a brain, a little respite.

Any kind of slow, mindful physical exercise. So mindful walks in nature, like a hiking trail, a beach, or a park. It doesn't matter. Wherever you can be. Doing something like yoga, somatic yoga, even tai chi, where you work with energetics around you, which is great and really makes you aware of your spiritual essence. Right? Any type of prayer, a meditation, you know, that someone might resonate with? I always say that for those who are angry, it's very important to process that appropriately. In cases like this, a more vigorous physical exercise is great. Like if you want to take a run or a swim, you know, or you're playing handball even by yourself against the wall, this is really good. Release is kind of the equivalent of if you're home, you punch a pillow sort of thing, right? Because we don't want to project that onto somebody else.

Yeah, yeah, I know, years ago, when I was a child, I took transcendental meditation. And, you know, when you're doing the things I was doing, you sort of let that go. And then recovery. I came back to it, and I do it every day, and that's great. And I also, as you just mentioned, I became a runner and a triathlete, so.

Oh, see, I didn't know that about you. Really good for me, you know, I  did two Boston, three New York marathons and triathlons. Oh  Wow. So it was just such a great release and something so positive in my life, opposed to all the negative things that I used to do. So, yeah. All right. Do you believe addiction is, at its core, an identity crisis, and why or why not that?

Absolutely. It is. You know, now that we've had this conversation so far, that's the answer, because, you know, again, we’ve adopted beliefs and behaviors that were handed down to us from our families and cultures, ethnicities, society at large, that we made our own. Yeah. And as we get older, we begin to see that some of these are not true and they do not resonate with us. And we can struggle and have internal conflict on what to follow, what is right, what is our own voice telling us right, so that internal conflict begins to take place, and as we go through this process, if we have no sense of our spiritual identity at all, then our sense of self can easily be hijacked or annihilated. And that leads to the identity crisis, right? Which can then lead to addictive behaviors, because then we're looking to our coping mechanisms to figure out how we're going to try to, you know, how are we going to navigate this? What are we going to do with all of this? And this is why it's so important, and it's probably why I do the work that I do, really, at its core, because our spiritual identity is our grounding, guiding force in life.

I agree with that 100%.

And I can't invest enough. And I'm not talking about organized religion for those listeners. You do whatever you want. This is beyond your organized religion, which is human-created, right? It's human-developed. This is about who you are and learning to live tangibly with that part of yourself, integrated with your human identity.

And it's about embracing the virtues and not the vices. It's like a natural outcome. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I got to say, throughout the whole day, I'm in touch with that spiritual part of my life. There are challenges during good times, during everything. I always make an effort to reach out and understand that's a big part of who I am now. It is right. I mean, if you think about it, if you really think about it, the addiction is just a coping mechanism for an identity crisis. Right. Yeah, absolutely. All. Alright. My dear, if someone listening today feels like they have no idea who they are, what's the first step you want them to take? Well.

I would say they have to sit in stillness. We, especially here in Western culture, have to learn to sit in the stillness. Put your hand on your heart. If you can't be in nature, just be in your home. You could put soft music on. If you are in nature, you could be at a quiet hiking trail, the beach, or anywhere that resonates with you.

It doesn't matter, but breathe slowly and deeply. There are a lot of breathing techniques. Find one that resonates with you and do it until you start to feel your mind get quiet and your nervous system start to calm itself and settle, and get out of any type of fight or flight that you might be in. The most important thing is when we're in the stillness and we manage to get there, we listen.

We're not talking. We're so used to talking in this culture, right? And because you want the stillness when you create the stillness in your physical space, you're prompting the stillness within you to come forward. Yeah, and that is your spiritual intelligence. That's coming forward to guide you. Yes. But you won't hear it unless you're sitting in the stillness and listening. Yes, yes. And it's very simple. That can be, you know, people find it very challenging. Yeah. Like, if you know eastern philosophies, it's very easy because they're taught from a young age. But we live in a world of distractions constantly, because it’s funny you hear me, I go back to the program a lot because everything that we say in addiction comes back to a big saying in them, especially in the beginning, it takes the cotton out of your ears and sticks it in your mouth.

So you listen so you can hear. Right. And I love that saying because it was very, very true. As adults, we think we have a lot to say, but we don't, and that doesn't just apply to addicts. I mean, yeah, I agree, because we live in a world of distractions and there's a lot of exterior noise. And in our desperation to keep up with everything that's going on, we don't have time to process the information, and we find ourselves drained by the end of a 12-hour day, and we have nothing to show for it. We're like, oh my God, what did I just do all day kind of thing? You know? That's so true. So the stillness becomes so important. It's key,

It is key. And once again, I just want to thank you for just every time we do this, I find it fun. It's such a joy for me as well. I really do need you to know that. Yeah. And for me as well.

Thank you for having me, Jay. Absolutely. And with that, we will wrap up this episode of the Choices podcast. I hope our time together was inspiring and motivating. Stay empowered. Stay well. You can watch this episode and all episodes on our website at choicesgifts.com.

May God bless you, and we'll see you soon. Bye.