Episode 51: Blue Collar Spirituality: Finding a Higher Power That Actually Works

Author Michael McMorrow joins You Always Have Choices to share a practical, no-nonsense approach to spirituality rooted in recovery, hard work, and everyday life. A powerful conversation for anyone who’s spiritual, skeptical, or simply curious.

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Podcast Transcript:

Hello world, and welcome to Choices, Books, and Gifts, where you always have choices. My name is Jay DePaolo. I'm the owner of Choices Books and Gifts in New York City, and it is a store dedicated to health, wellness, and recovery. We've been in business for over 30 years, and I'm the host of our podcasts. You Always Have Choices, where we dive deep into stories of transformation, healing, and personal growth.

Today, I'm very excited to introduce my guest, Michael McMorrow. He's the author of Blue Collar Spirituality: Finding a God that Works. I'm going to read a little bit of a bio on Michael. So we know you guys know who we're dealing with more, and then he and I are going to get into it.

Finding a god who works as a lifelong tradesman and proud member of the working class.

After spending decades on jobs nights in union halls and alongside hard-working men and women who often feel disconnected from traditional religion, Mike developed a raw, honest, no-nonsense approach to spirituality. Growing up largely agnostic, he struggled for years with the idea of God, not rejecting it but unable to connect with anything preachy, complex, or dogmatic. What he discovered over time was a practical spirituality, something real-world, simple, and usable in everyday life.

His book speaks directly to people like him, those who believe in hard work and integrity in something bigger than themselves, even if they cannot fully define it. All right, well, that pretty much explains who you are. That's pretty good. All right, so, if you don't mind, I'm going to pop right into it. I'm just curious, where did this book come from? The idea. You sound like you warned against it, but you couldn't find something that you fit into.

Yeah. Well, I suppose, the biggest part of it was, I was raised in Catholicism, and I didn't really have any issues with Jesus, per se. And as it happened, you know, it turns out we were in the same union for a while.

So, my relationship with that whole thing changed, as I grew older, meaning it's changed in the sense that you believed more or less.

Well, I believed less in Jesus as a godhead. Right. And more, like a union brother. Right? Like,

I suppose maybe, maybe a resource or a source of wisdom that I could dip into.

Okay. Now, you know, I came of age in the 70s, so, you know, I got distracted, with drugs and alcohol, I would imagine. With booze and enhancements. Yeah. Through the years, I got sober, and I did the same thing as you. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of the last decade in a lot of ways, but so, you know, when you go through something like that, or at least from my experience, it made me look at a lot of things. And that was a gift of the 12-step program. I came in through Alcoholics Anonymous. And, did that help with the spirituality part of it? Well, you know what happened? Well, you know, in Bill's story, early on, you know, his friend is coming over. You know, Bill tells his story, his buddies, his drinking buddies coming over, and he's all excited, and he shows up, and he's he looks great.

And he's so excited to know what's going on. And then his friend says, Well, I got religion. And Bill is just like, oh, shit, really not bad. And, and you read on a little further, and he talks about, well, why don't you use your own conception of God? And I remember reading that in the Big Book. I was still drinking at the time, so I had a little Scotch rock going on while I was reading through this, and I'm like, I just looked up from what I said, you can do that. Yeah. And so I had, I had a, a close friend who was sober, and so I eventually found my way to,

AA clubhouse where they had meetings pretty much around, you know, from 6:30 to midnight, seven days a week. And I heard what I needed to hear in that first meeting. I've been sober ever since. That’s where the higher power thing really stuck with me.  You mean the concept of your own higher power concept of a higher power? It kind of permitted me to dig deeper now, before I just kind of pitched the whole idea and walked away from it, but I still had kind of this nagging thing that way.

Right, right. Yeah. Cool. How long after you were in a program and living life that way?

I would imagine you became no longer an agnostic, but still found a power that you choose to call your higher power. But how much longer did it take to write the book and find this spirituality for everyone? To maybe understand on a different level?

Yeah. Let's see, the book was probably, I don't know, 30 years later. Really? Oh, yeah. It didn't, it didn't hit me right away. And, let's see, I was 13 years sober and going through a second divorce. Right. And I had been working with the book Sermon on the Mount, which was, I don't know if that's popular out your way, Ph yeah, very, very Big. But it was really very popular in Southern Cal.

So I was starting my day reading, from that, even though it was, it was kind of over my head in some ways, because I was still very much a program Catholic in my understanding of things, as like, you know, a deity kind of idea and something separate from myself and so forth. And, but I had, so even within Catholicism, I went looking for a church of the Holy Spirit just to see if I could. And I really looked at Judaism also because

I wanted to kind of shake, shake loose of this other thing. And then, someone had written on the inside jacket of this book, Science of Mind. And, so I thought, maybe they can do something about my thinking, because by this time, I realized that I was the problem.

And even though we hear about that a lot in meetings, you know, and all of our inventory work, it's about owning our side of things. There are still those places, at least in my experience. There are still those places where I want to make it someone else's fault. Yeah. Or, you know, or they didn't understand or, you know, they, they, they and but our, you know, as you're saying, you know, this your show is about choices, and our life is about always being at a choice point. And our point of power, of course, is in the right now. But I had to do some digging around that. And then, you know, this idea that our thought creates our reality. Well, you know, part of you goes like, oh, well, duh. But just like in doing our inventory and 12 step where we're doing a moral inventory, I found that I really need to do some inventory on the way that I was thinking and in the way I was showing up in my life, and whether or not, that was, Integrated or not, I suppose, you know, was the way I was thinking was my life reflecting the way I was thinking? And in many ways it wasn't.  Except I was sober.

Right. So, that's right. So just before the book, the idea and all that, what were you doing different things, or it's meditation and prayer bringing you to it? How did you decide to write this book?

Well, share it with the world. So in this other philosophy, you know, they talk about how our thoughts form our lives. So what? What you know, that what we speak, what we think has power because it's resonating as resonating within the mind of a higher power. However, when you understand that to be so, of course, I formed up a lot of concrete in my day. And so I always saw things from a construction perspective. And the thing is great about, you know, because I've had this 11-step job now for several years, but, you know, you can do it. You can do stuff throughout your day, and it just doesn't look like you got anything done. Well, construction's not that way. So you can see how much you've accomplished in a day. You can also see how much you have accomplished. Are you still in construction?

No, I'm, I've been out of it. I did 33 years, and then I transitioned into the field I'm in now, and

What is the job now? Well, so now I am what they call a minister of religious science. And so I've been running the, the, a center for Spiritual Living in Granada Hills, which is in the San Fernando Valley. Cool. I've been doing that for 15 years now. And what does that look like? People come in, and they want to do. You actually do a sermon of types where there's a room full of people? Oh, yeah. Yeah, or do people come and see you into it? And so it's a small place. And so now we're set up to live stream, so it's almost like an online studio in a way. So we have cameras and, you know, two-camera looks and all that. And, we have two services a day because this place is small. I try to make sense of this crazy, chaotic world from a spiritual perspective. And, oftentimes, frankly, a skeptical spiritual perspective. So if I were to ask you, if I were to say, okay, you know, I like you, I see something's out there, I can identify, I don't know how to find it.

What do you tell me? Okay. So, what I encourage people to do, and this is what I've attempted to do in the book, is to I encourage people to broaden or broaden their idea of what higher power looks like, because many of us think and deist terms. Right. So whether it's Jesus or, you know, a law, but Muhammad as a prophet or, Elohim with Moses as a prophet. So we have these, and this stuff is, for those of us who live in the West, these systems that impress themselves within our thinking. And they're downloaded in there. What? We're really. Unless we have parents who just pitch the whole thing. Right?

So I just encourage you to really broaden it. And if nothing else, with the really hard case agnostic, with one foot in atheism, you know, I will speak to the power of love and how we can't see love. We can't really quantify love. We can't really measure it. And yet even atheists get married. Yeah. So it's I think a lot of people get turned off by the G O D. The word god. That's why I say finding a god that works. So it sounds a little bit blasphemous, but I just think that God is a placeholder word for that, which really is undefinable and transcendent and immutable. And, you know, we would be better off, looking to the poets, which, really, the ancients who, you know, constructed the Bible, were more poets than anything else, because that's what we're trying to pierce through, this experience of ordinary life, and into something that runs deeper. And that's great. That's great. And you feel the people who can't speak about God, because to me, God is love. So that's an easy thing for me to grasp. Love is God, and God is love. So, you explaining it that way, I can see where, you know, people can conform. You know, people can understand that because, you know, love to me is a power greater than myself. Right.

So intellectually, maybe even in the heart, you know, we make that 18-inch journey to the heart.

But then the next thing, the next question is really, what are you going to do about it? So if you believe God is love, are you being a dick on the freeway, or are you being, you know, well, let's give everybody a pass on the freeway. But let's just say you come home from work, you know, and the family is there, or the wife is there, you know, are you being grumpy or are you acting like, you know, Well, if you have love in your heart, you're not being grumpy. You know you're trying to see what you are.

Yeah, but you know, the world presses in, though, don't you? Yeah, it does. So it doesn't mean that, you know, there's still a challenge, right? So I used to think that, for instance, and I used to say this myself, that I was spiritual but not religious, Right? And, I kind of felt that a lot today, too. Yeah. I thought, well, maybe that's the new religion, but now, after, you know, working in a spiritual community, you know, actively now for several years, I think spiritual religion is. Yeah, I'm spiritual. Just don't ask me to do anything about it. Right. Don't ask me to get up on Sunday and go somewhere. And you don't even need to do that, right? Like, for instance, for 12 groups, there are many meetings that have a spiritual focus on a Saturday or Sunday. Morning. Absolutely. Right. Or you can take a hike, or you can sit in silence and turn all the devices off for an hour. You know, there are many ways to mine that.

Yeah. Try to get closer to that, to that. You know, I was very blessed at a young age. I learned transcendental meditation. So, I have at least half an hour of quiet time every morning between prayer and meditation, so that helps me. But throughout the course of the day, like I find when I. And I'm sure you can experience this because you do it all week.

When I help others, I get more out of it than they do. I can almost guarantee you that. Yeah. And that's right. And I got to tell you, that's the part of ministry that I enjoy the most. Yeah. And it's a part that,

but, you know, there's administration, you know, you got to pay bills just like you do at home. And, you know, you've got to work that side of things. You've got to, you know, continually read and ponder and write, you know, so that you have something worth sharing on Sunday for sure. But I have to say everything that I have going on right now is a direct result of Alcoholics Anonymous and the 12-step program.

I mean,  myself as well. Yeah. I mean, none of this would have happened. Or all of it could be taken away. Also. Right. And I've been sober now, you know, 37, I always have. It's long enough that I have to do the math now. That's fantastic. Twenty-five minus eighty. Right. So, a real old timer. Do you still go to meetings out of curiosity? You know, I wandered off for several years. Well, I, I should say, compared to what I did initially. Right. So, I mean, I used to go to probably three meetings a week up until I was 20. And then I wandered off for a while, and then for a few years, and then I was like one meeting a week, and it was a speaker meeting. And I never went to speaker meetings, so I well, I always wanted to go to discussion meetings. Right, you know, and the sicker the better.

I always get it. A good meeting with a speaker who's been through a lot is better than anything you can watch on TV.  See you on Broadway. Yeah absolutely. And then. But then the guy, I mean, I remember my first meeting. My very first meeting, you know, I was expecting Aqualung to be, you know, parked out back and just a bunch of last gaspers and being the hole in the sky, which is where I got sober, there were a couple of those, but there was a, there was a young girl there, 20. It was her 21st birthday, and she was taking a cake for a year. And there were these other guys who were taking chips for like 30 days, 60 days. And I remember grabbing one of them. I said, like, like 30 days, no weed, no nothing, no man, 30 days. On the natch. And I'm like, because I'm reading all those things and I'm like, I'm totally identifying because, you know, I also had a little issue with cocaine.

Me too. Yeah. So, which, after I'd been sober for a while, I realized I was just using so I could stay up after 11:00 and keep partying until closing time think that's the whole idea behind it. And that's all of us. You want it too hard, want too much cocaine. Okay. Yeah, but I identify as an alcoholic. Yeah. And now I identify as an alcoholic, but also compulsive. It's like, eat one chocolate chip cookie and we can have ten of them. Yeah, I have one black in my cigar. The next day, I'm buying a pack. You know, it's just. Well, it's insane. And we have to practice these principles in all our affairs. That's it, that's it.

But the thing is, is that what I found was that this whole notion of cultivating a relationship with the higher power and spending time and thinking about, you know, how does it work in my life and how does it work in the life of others makes my sobriety, where at times it's been a hair shirt.

You know, where I've just been, knuckling through it. Now, I know this is a hard question, but if it was because I haven't written down here, if there was one thing that completely changed you or how you got to the conclusion where you are right now, can you talk about it, or is it two in definitive?

Well, you know, sobriety is a you know, in the beginning were surrendering, right? We're surrendering our right to drink or use. Right. But, you know, if we're going to stick around here and be comfortable, there are a lot more surrenders. Yeah. Right. And, I think for me. My last divorce really brought into focus that I was the cause of all this calamity that was going on. And the good news about that, though, is I could do something about that. Sure. Right. So there was a guy, Eckhart Tolle. You probably read his book, The Power Up Now. So I read that, and I'm, like, going, Yeah. So it's like a, you know, bad news, good news, bad news kind of thing. But the thing is, is that I already knew that, you know, I'd already used the higher power to get sober. Right. And I use this higher power to build a construction company one day at a time. I used it to go back to college.

One day at a time. I used it to date in respectful ways. Yes. One day at a time. And, so eventually, you know, you know, people say, well, you have to learn to love yourself, but in time, that's what happened. Not in some kind of egotistical way, but just looking at, you know, like warts and all, because I know where the warts are. And now I've been married for a while, so I have someone else who can help me with that. Sometimes, although she's much gentler on me than I am, I should say, even still today.

But, you know, I like this guy sitting in front of you today, and it wasn't always like, it's like, years of sobriety.

Right. Right. Practice the fear of sobriety. And fudge this journey you're on that now you're a preacher and you know, share this with so many others and, you know, give them and sort of an easier because I do agree with you. I believe that so many of our children today are against religion, like the burning bush, and God died on the cross, that they have a hard time with that. So if you can spin it another way and get to the same conclusion, as far as the things you said, what we do every day, how we treat others, how we treat ourselves, because self-love is so very important.

Well, and the other part of that is to stick with it, you know, not just to walk away, you know. So, for instance, if you're going to be an atheist, it's not like being a vegetarian, right? You don't just stop eating meat, right? Right. So if you're a vegetarian, there are reasons why you choose to no longer eat meat. And you have a certain morality that's tied with it, or so for. So, to claim to be an atheist, I think it's important for people to remain spiritually curious. And then if they find their way back around and, you know, the gift of faith is, is, not always an easy thing to cultivate, because, you know, the truth is that if you want to claim there is no God, you can gather evidence to support that, but you really can't Claim to be a believer in whatever that is. You know, I use the word god, but a higher power is the way that I understand it most. Or spirit or holy Spirit, if you will, or mind, you know, and the big book, Bill Wilson even calls it creative intelligence or universal mind. And that same story that I was talking about. So, if you use, looks. Okay, well, I'm going to pretend like I believe that today.

And if you do, you will find evidence to support that conclusion as well. So the thing that I say about my own faith is I like to pick out the places where I'm making that leap of faith. I like to pick my spots, and sometimes I'm overwhelmed in a, you know, not as often as I would as I would like in a, beatific, connection with the spirit.

Doesn't happen very often. But when it does, you know, it's like, it's like the juice that keeps me going to the next experience. And I'm confident that I will have an experience like, like you were saying, you know, take the time to do it. The quiet time.

And, I agree with that. Like, say, well, what does the sponsor once say to me? He said more will be revealed, but more will be required. And the way I understood that is, you know, yes, the easier this gets because I believe deeper and deeper with God, the more I have to practice it. Like, you know, through my day, I pray, I'll pray I'm on the pickleball court when God, please help me beat these people.

You know, I know. Strengthen my knees, strengthen my knees, and give me a good for you know. So I think I'm in really, literally conscious contact with God on some level all day long. And I think that's what keeps it so fresh for me. I don't give it a chance to move away from me. Right. Because I know that when I stay with it, how much better my life is.

Well, and so where I ended up with this. Is that. Well, if this is so, then that means that my whole life is an expression of the divine. You know, my construction company. Like, when I adopted that attitude, I became so much more profitable because I was, you know, because I realized, you know, the universe cannot pay an invoice. I don't present right. It can't pay a check that I refuse to accept. And I just again, inventory my thinking. I started seeing all the ways where I was turning my good away. And so, this book I've set up that way. So the end of, you know, it's a small book, it's only five chapters. I designed it with working men in mind so that, you know, they can put it on the toilet tank and, you know, read the small section and maybe get some useful information for the day.

But it also has, you know, what I call a toolbox at the end of each chapter, it's just 3 or 4 questions, and it's just, again, it's an inventory, you know, what do you think? And it's helping you discover more about this. Listen, I think curiosity, do you have the book with you there? Is there a way we could take a look at it?

Can you show it on the screen?

I like that you mark up your own book. That's a good sign. So, folks, this is Michael McMorrow. His book. And, if you like this conversation, go out and purchase this book. I'm sure you can get it on Amazon. I'll carry a few copies and choices, and we'll go from there. So, Michael, let me ask you this last question. What do you hope people take away from this book, especially those who feel spirituality isn't for them?

What could you? Well, if after they've read it, they still think spirituality isn't for them. I hope that they are at least spiritually curious. You know, some concepts in here are deep if you get curious about them, but it really is, you know, it's very it's, it's written to be read quickly, and practice these tools at the end of each practice the tools. But, you know, I just kind of wrote it thinking, well, I'm only going to have this guy's attention for, you know, small segments of time. Agreed.

And, so I wrote it with that in mind. But, you know, the I tell you, people who have bought the book the most are wives, grandmothers, aunts, you know, people who love working people. I did a podcast,

a couple of years ago, where I was just speaking to, you know, the soul of manual labor, and how, even as, you know, even having my own construction company, having ten, 15, 20 years in the business, I still enjoyed

pick and shovel work. Yeah, right. Because there was something about it.

And, a woman called and said, Well, you know, that just means so much more to me. I have been banging on my husband all these years because he's just a construction guy. So that was, you know, that was a win that day. Yeah, absolutely. You know, so somebody got a lift in their marriage, I think maybe he came home, and he got lucky.

You know who knows. Right. But they if it brought them closer. Fantastic. I'm a great believer in idle hands. An idle mind only gets us in trouble. So yeah. Any kind of honest work to me is God's work. You know, as long as you go out there and do that and fit it in that way, I feel very blessed. You know, we're talking about my understanding of religion as I grew up. It was as a carpenter. I remember one day I got a splinter. I'm like, wow, you know, Jesus used to get splinters just like this. And then I wonder if he said, mother fucker. God damn it. Or whatever you say in Aramaic for such things. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. That's good stuff. Really is good. That's good stuff. I mean, if he were human, he must have. Right? He would have had the calluses; he would have gotten some.

Well, he was the son of God, so I'm not sure if he would, if he, I think we, and not that we should, but I think he was above, a little bit on a higher ground than your average Joe. So I'm not sure if he'd curse, but he'd come close to it. Well, he went after that fig tree right on one day, I, I guess everybody gets to have one bad day. Absolutely. We all do. But with that, I'm going to read a little something here, if that's okay with you. Great. Do I have it?

Yes. So, well, this program and all the programs we try to release at least every two weeks. So I hope you join us again. And I really want to thank Michael for coming on and doing such a wonderful job and sharing his life, his spirituality with us. And, you know, I can only suggest going out and getting that book. I know that's what's something I'm going to do because, no matter how much I believe in work, I always know I can go deeper and further. So I appreciate you, Michael. God bless you.

And, God bless everyone out there. And we'll see you soon.